Socratic Seminar Posts

First of all, all three period's socratic seminars were amazing.  You all participated with respect towards one another and came up with some very interesting, surprising and inciteful discussions. I am very proud of you.  Think of this blog, and each post and comment, as an extension of the classroom.  The same civil tone and mutual respect that we have for one another in the classroom is even more important online.

Reflect on to the Socratic Seminar by adding two comments.

Please put your full name in the title in all comments so that I can give you full credit.

Comment #1 - to the Scoratic Seminar Notes from your period.

Your comment should cover one topic that was addressed in the Socratic Seminar and give your thoughts on it - and - add another topic that you wish had been brought up, but wasn't and your thoughts on that.

Comment #2 - to someone else's comment in a different period.

When you see an interesting thought in a commnet from a student in another period, comment on that comment.  Your comments should stay positive only. Please just give credit where credit is due.



That's it!  Due by Sept 4.

Comment on this post with questions about the process.

Scarlet Letter Socratic Seminar P 5

Favorite Quote

PEARL

P 62, Ch 6

• Pearl's aspect has infinite variety
• She had all types of characteristics

Ch 8

• She is my happiness and fortuve and retribution "She is the Scarlett Letter"

P 47

• "Speak out the names"  
• Will we take the Scarlet Letter away?  NEVER

Who is the protagonist of the book?

HESTHER at first but DIMMSDALE at the end

• D is a priest who is a sinner - that is dynamic
• Hesther struggles throughout the whole book - it is more her.
• No - it is Dimmsdale's story told through Hesther
• Isn't it really Pearl's book?  It doesn't start with Hesther and Dimmsdale getting together - it starts with Pearl's entrance into the society.
• It is Hesther's story MORE than anyone else's
• No - it belongs to all three of them together.
• Pearl is boing told through Hesther too.
• It is not Pearl's story - - she is a symbol, not the protagonist.
• Shouldn't the protagonist change throughout the book - - for better or worse?
• Hesther changes, but Dimmsdale just dies. . . ?

If this is a tragedy, like in Greek Tragedy, the tragic hero has to have a tragic flaw.  What is Dimmsdale's tragic flaw?

• What killed him?  Not confessing - holding a secret so long that it built up and killed him.
• He hated himself.  fasting and lashing himself has to be a flaw
• GUILT - he was holding his hand over his heart

MAN IN BLACK - - 

• Who is the man in black?  Where does he show up??
• In the forest - with Mistress Higgins 
• and he is the one who makes the women all witches
• Hesther says that if not for Pearl she would write her name in his book in blood
• Isn't it Chillingsworth - - walking in the semetary?

Scarlet Letter Socratic Seminar p 3

FAV QUOTE:

"my child must seek. . . " p 30
She tries to teach Pearl to think of God as a literal father in place of the real father she doesn't have.

The Public Condemnation in Ch 1.
It told through Hesther - in her own head - very relatable.

Dimmsdale = "Tell us who it was. . . " p 46 "for thy soul's peace and salvation"

• On the pedestal of shame he asks Hesther to tell because he can't - - she doesn't - - it is an out in the open triumph over evil.
• D is scared - he is so important and he has so much to lose
• Capital punishment
• He wants to keep doing good works first
• Every man has a right to keep his secrets
• He does care about H.  He loves her so makes it HER CHOICE
• He is a coward - - she is much more independent and strong.
• He was begging for her to tell so that he woulnd't have to
• He was throwing HER into the spotlight - forcing her to make all the decisions and be strong.
• Hesther was FREE - - Dimsdale suffered because of all this.
• BUT he could have told and he didn't He was so LOVED by everyone which made it worse
• and because of that he never got happiness - pg 83
• He knows he has to face God on judgement day and his happiness is up to God.

IS Dimmsdale a coward?

•  tried to tell them in his sermons but it just made it worse - ironic.
• Chillingworth got retribution from him
• But all those peole will know on judgement day and he knows that.

An interesting idea is the contrast between Physical Beauty and Physical Deterioration

• Hesther has nothing to hide and so she has nothing to make her ugly
• She already admitted it - ironically it was physically visible in her body and so she wasn't destroyed by it.
• Dimmsdale was hiding it and that's what caused his physical deterioration.

Does Pearl know about Dimmsdale?  that he is her father?

• D was always in pain - always holding his hand over his heart.
• p 105 - "Stand with mother and me. . ." ". . . only on judgement day"

What about p 63 with D twitching and screaming in his sleep.  That's how Chillingsworth knows because of the A on D's chest.

Was Ch really a Dr?  

• He learned his practice from natives = demonic = intense evil!
• wanted revenge so badly - that makes him so cool!!
• Ch's vengence was Captain Ahab-like - - he was obsessed!
• Was going to follow D around as a ghost if he had to.
• He kept D from salvation and that was his revenge.

Dimmsdale was actually really strong

• The Scarlet Letter on D's chest was actually the real Scarlett Letter from the title.
• The real Scarlett Letter is a secret - and so the title is acutally a big secret.
• EVERYONE has a secret hidden Scarlett Letter that they hide from the world

What is up with Pearl?

• She is not a typical puritan child.
• H = "I will live by these ideals so that Pearl doesn't have to" she is thinking this. . .
• Almost like Adam and Eve - - Pearl is left behind in paradise with the angels - she is the only innocent
• always described as "elf-like" "not human" "angel"
• from the Bible - "Pearl of great price"
• Heaven is available to her - - she is free as if she had not bitten the apple
• H thought Pearl was given by God "as a punishment" or "as perfect"
• She's a weird kid - - curious, different, represents the next generation

Pearl's relationship with the A?

• doesn't know what it means
• she wants to be like her mom
• loves that her mom is different from everyone else
• doesn't like Dimmsdale - - does that have to do with the A?

Scarlet Letter Socratic Seminar P. 2

UTOPIA! - -

• and yet the first things built were a semetary and a prison
• semetary = death
• prison = sin
• and all this on "virgin soil" how strange

This could all be foreshadowing that Dimsdale and then Hesther die and are buried in the same semetary.

We liked Ch 1 right away because of the details and description

Hesther is described as being so beautiful - - she is a very pretty woman and so it seems like we expect sin from her because of her beauty

• tall
• dark 
• glossy abundant hair
• regularity of features
• deep black eyes

It is her fault that the sin happened?  That is NOT FAIR.

But when she got out of jail she was described as really grey and the A was the most beautiful thing about her.  The letter A was exagerated in its beauty.

Just like us today - we always just remember what people do wrong.

A = stood for Adultary, but later people couldn't remember. . . they thought it stood for Able

The reflection of the A in the book symbolizes how Hesther reflects on the lesson of the A

p. 76 - "Badge teaches me daily. . ."  

The Scarlet Letter sounded so pretty, beautiful and elaborate - - Why did she make it taht way?  She accepted her shame and sin. . . ?

But she tried to cover it up with the baby in Ch 1 - on the scaffold.

in Ch 2 she blushes but shows the A proudly.

Pearl is a symbol of Hesther's sin and punishes her daily - tortures her more than the letter A and is "crazy"!

Pearl = Pearl of great price - purchased with her only treasure.

She loved Pearl for another reason, though - - 

• Pearl and the Scarlet Letter taught her a lesson

She wasn't happy with her 1st husband but found TRUE LOVE with Dimsdale.

• She STAYED in the town to OVERCOME - to get to heaven eventually.  

She couldn't hide - she had to PAY for her sin - - to make up for it. . . ?

WHY DIDN'T HESTHER RUN AWAY??

• Guilt - - just like Dimsdale's sin eventually 'got to him' Hesteher cannot hide from God anywhere.
• Not that easy - - everyone knows everyone in Puritan times. It would have been too hard to start over somewhere else.  We all stay in Hemet after all!
• Eventually she owned it - - in the end she showed that she wasn't ashamed
• The letter was beautiful just like her.  She knew that the letter was hers - - she couldn't run away from it.
• The letter was part of her - Even Pearl loved it.  It was all that she saw of her mother.  

Does Pearl even know what the latter means?

• H couldn't tell Pearl.
• Pearl wouldn't think that H was perfect anymore.
• H couldn't handle it if Pearl knew about her sin and thought less of her.

SECRETS

Why did Chillingsworth keep Dimsdale's secret?

• It was a way to punish Dimsdale - to torture him.
• When and how did Pearl find out what the A really stood for?
• If H told it would have been a humbling experience.
• Pearl was angry because all this time everyone knew it but her
• Don't want to live in the shadow of sin
• I would have left too.

Pearl was not a bad kid - - odd, but not bad.